/l/7On Ryoji IkedaAn Autechre enjoyer2024-09-04 03:21:49No.7

What is true is that an Ae enjoyer will have no idea how to listen to any of Ikeda album in a way that doesn't hurt ears. I think they're in a sort of dichotomy, and in a way, Ikeda is a complete Apollonian musician. Plan to see a Ikeda gig.

/l/8An Autechre enjoyer2024-09-04 03:27:20No.8 - No.9

It's interesting that Ircam's brahms database includes him: https://brahms.ircam.fr/en/ryoji-ikeda

>The present state of electronic music
Autechre is boring and Autechre is factually boring.
Btw. Their live performance would be devastatingly different from their album, it's like… You stand in the inner part of Bohor.

—

/l/10More on the comparisionAn Autechre enjoyer2024-09-04 09:52:58No.10>>11

It occurred to me that Autechre might give people a meh hispter feeling because their music seems to have to do with somatic sensation. For me, thinking tends to happen after listening on the first listen, for example.

With Ikeda, I can say that it's almost hard to stop thinking while listening, because his music is not meant to be listened to. So I can also say that I don't think Ikeda's music is much like "music" in the sense that it gives up a lot of concrete components that music would normally require. But from what I've observed, Ikeda is not a traditional electronic guy, but more "audio-visual" installations etc, anyway a verified composer (no irony). He is just not on the realm of that electronic even electroacoustic music. He is not that underground. (Well autechre is also not really underground, aktually it doesn't matter.)

Ikeda's music is easy to recall, you can remember exactly what's in there from musical memory (and combined with output of the last thinking activity) since it is exact, one rule through it all.

They're both unique and thinkable. I never find Autechre boring. I still think that Rhythm is crucial for electronic music - field recording doesn't count, and an electronic piece that uses a field recording as samplings would not be pure anymore - Autechre's music is the best of all algorithmic music in terms of Rhythm.

But you can't find the point within Autechre's music. It's not a bad thing for me though, since when I turned to the sound itself etc., Autechre is still excellent. So this would also make sense why Autechre said they were partly inspired by Parmegiani etc.

Ikeda is more avant-garde, and Autechre more traditional and pure.

Well, another thing to note is that Ikeda uses Pd, but Ae guys use Max.

—

/l/12Lounoymous2024-09-04 10:44:16No.12>>18
/l/13Lounoymous2024-09-04 10:55:01No.13
/l/14Lounoymous2024-09-04 11:28:16No.14
/l/16Lounoymous2024-09-04 11:40:45No.16
/l/17Lounoymous2024-09-04 19:04:10No.17

—

/l/18An Ae enjoyer2024-09-05 11:32:41No.18

>the sounds ae use
>new sound design of Autechre
I swear no ae enjoyers would care about "new sounds" they made, but the totality, the tense, the magick of merging/mixing of these all stuffs together, simply put.

>Pure
>he works with installations he is not "pure"
I mean, I think Ikeda is not pure in the sense of traditional electronic music ("play with sound"). In fact I don't never think that Autechre has anything to do with the music of Xenakis or even classical music, or I never thought that anyone who makes electronic music today should follow a single clear line, like you said, "structural transparency in the arts". Ae is almost a permanent exception among all sub-genres of electronic music, a thing that can never be divided.

My thought was simply that, the sound of Ae belongs to the great tradition of computer-electronic music, belong to the invention of computer or that GRM studio, to be precise. So I say that it is pure - like a wonderful but clean operating system for me - and rich in both discipline and beauty. Their music combines the electroacoustic and noise (metal-like, glitch etc.) in their patches perfectly, with a wonderful balance of Rhythm. Arguably the best result of early electronic music, it has many influences from the early days detectable in their music.

Ikeda's music doesn't have strong relation with early electronic music, his Pd patches would be well-organised and clean, but sometimes his data-source of sound would be very huge. And one could argue that he's the one who really sets the rules for himself. Just like you, the things I don't like about Ikeda' music are only sonically, not conceptually. For me a piece of electronic music really has to follow some musical rules and not be entirely conceptual and the bad mixing (not even mixing, I think it's just pd in-recording) makes it really unlistenable, and I think that music is meant to be listened to (which doesn't mean that people should stop thinking), and that's the point of the sound engineering. Ikeda's bad use of harsh sounds is definitely more fatal to me than what you call Ae's "weird sound". Also, they are just distorted, or stretched, phased, filtered, delayed etc. These "weird sounds" are the solid legacy of Risset el al. Filter design or sound design are not meaningless or pointness. Single sound source (electroacoustic or sampled sounds) processed and then stacked with Max defined rules, which is actually no more a deliberate use of "weird sound" than some of those instrumental modern music.

Ae explores a wider range of sounds than Lachenmann's pression, but Lachenmann's pression focuses on a single instrument and explores more richness and flexibility than computer music can. The nature of the instrument inherently leads to extreme tonal/timbre complexity, this aspect was best explored by Radulescu, in his Das Andere opus 49 or Intimate Rituals, but the timbre limitations of instrument is definitely not the only thing to focus for him. Timbre etc. are necessary, but they are not the point. Composers nowadays just need to treat them calmly, just as spiritual sound materials. So factually I'm not a "GRMist" or "spectralist". After all they are only do manipulations on sound materials, but GRM engineers, spectral composers or Lachenmann focus on different levels. Spectral is the best among them.

>Indeed, what can be heard in La l´egende d’Eer is computer sounds that start as noise but quickly turn into pitched glissando, going onto a long evolution of ever-changing pitch, amplitude, and timbre.
Let's take La Légende d'Eer (Karl-092 version) as an quick example. I'm positive about Ikeda since the rules and controls he used to automate all his music (compared to Ae's rules or controls, which are actually included in their design of the patches, so I don't think that their controls - or the Apollo element - really doesn't exist), but the reason for me to dismissing him is that he doesn't consider at all that a single sound needs to be wrapped in envelope. Insisting on using Sinusoidal wave or even SQUARE wave (that really hurts ears) doesn't attract me, and that's not a sign of pure. I hate Sinusoidal wave and SQUARE wave, as well as white noise, pink noise. They shouldn't be immensly used in music. And I can't throw away the efforts of GRM engineers in creating electronic native sounds themselves for early electronic music, even if they're still historically missed the points in terms of musical purpose.

His music wouldn't be worse if he used something "softer" and more tonally accessible units like Xenakis did in his La Légende d'Eer. I don't think timbre needs to be discarded that much, and timbre also doesn't make a music piece impure. La Légende d'Eer is better than a La Légende d'Eer-2024 that uses square wave as the initial sound unit. Focusing on timbre doesn't make the music itself any less meaningful, and amplitude is almost an equally important aspect. I really just don't like the bare and harsh sound that Ikeda uses. It has to do with human perception. For example, of all the instruments, my favorites are the timbre of violin family (Violin, Viola) and clarinet.

>>91
This's why I love conversing with gesang. I need none agreement but thinking. I need to think or even forced to think.
Need meaningful content, thinking process, not playful easy talk.